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Scot: Last time Jody was here, he had just had bariatric surgery and he was untangling a lifetime of weight struggles, emotional setbacks, kind of a messy relationship with food too.

What I admire about Jody the most is he just keeps pushing forward. He's still figuring it out. He's still doing the work. And that helped me realize something that we just don't say enough, and that's getting healthy isn't a one-time decision. Oftentimes, it's a series of recommitments. It's not like you make the decision and it happens and it's happily ever after. It's a lot of work.

And a lot of health stories get packaged kind of like that clean arc. Decide to change, do the work, reach the goal, done. But Jody's story complicates that a little bit, and I think it complicates it in a good way because I think it's the lived experience of a lot of guys.

So just to bring you back up to speed, Jody did an Ironman before. And he had some goals for doing the Ironman. He thought it would help him achieve some of his health goals, but it really didn't fix that big stuff. It didn't deliver the weight loss he expected. It didn't lock in the permanent fitness lifestyle that he wants. And after the finish, he rebounded. He said in the episode, "Pizza for a year."

Mitch: That's right.

Scot: So it didn't solve that maintenance either. And worst is it didn't make him happy inside, which he thought it might as well, like, "When I become fit, I'll be happy." That's a story we tell ourselves a lot. But he was still unfulfilled.

So when I heard that he signed up for another Ironman, my first reaction was, "Why? Why are you doing this again?" And what changed in his thinking and his plan so that maybe this time the Ironman plays out differently?

We're going to find out where things are now and why Jody thinks another 2.4 miles in the water, 112 miles on a bike, and a 26-mile run feels like the right next step.

This is "Who Cares About Men's �����Ƶ." Information, inspiration, and a different interpretation of men's health. I'm Scot. I bring the BS. The MD to my BS is Dr. John Smith.

Dr. Smith: Hey, thank you for having me. Jody, I'm just curious about the emotional leg of the stool and how that panned out. I'm excited to get into this with you today.

Scot: All right. And he's a convert, Producer Mitch.

Mitch: Hey, there. After re-listening to the episode, the one thing I do want to ask at some point is, "Does Jody still sneeze when he's feeling full?" Which just caught me off guard when I was listening to it again. I had forgotten that bit and it's still rattling around up there.

So, Jody, you're doing another Ironman.

Jody: Yeah. And I'm thinking that year of pizza sounds really good right about now.

Scot: I would imagine, right? If you were weighing out the two things, let's see, train for an Ironman or eat pizza for a year. The "Would You Rather?" game. Yeah, the rather probably lands on the pizza.

So another Ironman. I want to dive into that. But I'm first curious, one year post-surgery, you had gastric bypass. Is that technically what you got?

Jody: It was kind of like gastric bypass. It was the duodenal switch. So it had the gastric sleeve where they took out about three-fourths of my stomach and then they rerouted the intestines. So that's sort of like the gastric bypass.

It's kind of like the big granddaddy of them all. It's the really powerful dual weight loss surgery. It both restricts how much you're able to eat and then it restricts how many calories and nutrients your body gets as well because of the intestinal bypassing.

Man, gosh, going back to the last time we were on here, I think I was about 105 pounds heavier than I am now.

Scot: So it's continued to work. It's continued to help you lose weight.

Jody: Yeah. I fought it for so long to get the surgery. And some of that was pride and some of it was probably ignorance and fear and trepidation and all of the above. It's turned out to be just . . . it's really saved my life, changed my life, and it's been a wonderful experience for me, honestly.

I don't sneeze as much as I used to, though. I'd probably weigh less now than I do if I would sneeze more often when I should stop eating.

Scot: Yeah, it's a very obvious little hint that maybe I'm full when you sneeze because it's so weird. That's so strange.

Jody: That was such a strange body cue that you're full. And it occasionally will happen now, but not nearly as much as it did back then.

Scot: I would recommend everybody go check that episode out that we did with Jody about a year, year and a half ago when we talked about the surgery, because if it's something you've ever considered, he really goes into that.

And so I'm glad to hear that a year, year and a half later, that it's actually still working. Sometimes these surgeries, I think people think it works for a little bit and then it doesn't. So it's great to hear that it's still working for you.

On to the Ironman. Why?

Jody: That is the best question you could possibly ask me. What in the hell was I thinking? Can I say hell? Because that's what it feels like.

Scot: Yeah. So, first of all, let me be polite and say how's the training going? When's the race? That sort of stuff. And then we'll talk about the rest of it.

Jody: Well, let's put it this way. I just came out of a therapy session, and I'm all pro-therapy.

Scot: Because of the Ironman or . . .

Jody: The whole session was me talking about training and all the different aspects of how that affects me both negatively and positively.

Scot: What's one way it affects you positively and one way it affects you negatively?

Jody: Well, positively, I'm just all-in on exercise, and I was coming from a place where I was a couch potato and was really lazy. So I definitely feel really good health-wise and just can move around better. And part of that is losing weight, but also using your body, you're able to do more. Even just simple things like walking upstairs or bending down to tie your shoes or stuff like that is just so much easier. I just feel fitter and I feel really good. So that's a positive.

The negative is probably mentally. That's really tough, and being sore a lot, and my swim sucks.

Scot: Your swim socks? What do your swim socks do? Do they mock you, or what?

Jody: My swim is so horrible.

Scot: Oh, your swim sucks. I thought you said swim socks. I thought there was something . . .

Jody: You would think I was wearing cement swim socks because of how much my swim sucks. My enunciation has gone downhill since I started training.

Yeah, the swimming is a challenge. All three disciplines are a challenge, but I have really lousy swimming form, and so that's been an issue. And it makes it so I can't go as far in the pool as I should be at this point. It's 3,800 meters, 2.4 miles, and that's a long, long way to swim. People always say, "I think the swim is the easiest part," and I'm like, "I don't think you've swam a lot if you say that," or you're Michael Phelps.

Scot: Right. Then you can say that.

So help me work through this. All the benefits of exercise you talk about, you could get without an Ironman. And then you wouldn't have to face the fact that your swimming sucks every day and you wouldn't have to have all of that pain. Why the Ironman? Why is that the vehicle for your exercise?

Jody: It kind of ties into . . . Well, not kind of. It definitely ties into my journey with the weight loss surgery.

I did the first Ironman in 2011, so it's been a minute. And so I signed up and I thought for sure that it was going to take me from a lifetime of obesity and catapult me into a lifetime of fitness and happily ever after and healthily ever after. It took 16.5 hours to get from the starting line to the finish line, but I did it.

They say that there is no finish line, but for me, there was a definitive finish line. I had finished my journey, I got the Ironman, and then I stopped, and hence began the year of pizza. I gained all of my weight back and then some over the course of the next year or two.

And from 2011 when I finished it until about four or five months ago, I didn't even entertain the thought of doing another Ironman. I thought, "Nope, that's not for me. That was way too extreme. I can't keep going from one extreme to the other." It was just this yo-yo effect and it was really hard physically and mentally.

And I thought exactly what you had said a minute ago. I need to find a shorter sprint triathlon or Olympic-distance triathlon or just 5K or 10K and just be happy with that. Just go out, jog for a mile or two a day, maybe go on a five-mile bike ride, find some moderate exercises to do, and go on with your life like that.

Well, last year I went through the weight loss surgery, and in the summertime I decided, "Hey, I want to do one of those short sprint triathlons again. It's been a long time. It's been 12 years. Let's try it."

So Labor Day last year of 2024, I signed up and did the South Davis Triathlon. It was a short swim, like 300-and-something yards, 12 miles on the bike, and a 5K. It took me a long time and it was hard and it sucked, but I finished and felt really good. I thought, "Well, that was kind of a fun type of suck. Let's maybe continue doing that," and I signed up for a longer distance race.

Well, one week went by, two weeks went by, a month went by, two months go by, three months go by, and I didn't do any exercises. I'm like, "Ay, here I go again. I accomplished a fun little triathlon and I didn't implement that into my daily life."

And then I was stuck. I'm like, "Well, I went through this big ordeal, life- and body-altering experience to go through this surgery, and here I still am about 100 pounds overweight." I couldn't get myself to exercise even though I had this Olympic-distance triathlon that I was signed up for. And then I ended up postponing that to this year. And then, gosh, over the months, I'm just like, "I'm not motivated."

And so a series of different events happened where I, crazily enough, decided, "You know what? I want to do another Ironman," which makes no sense. But I had seen another friend cross the finish line and saw his kids cheering him on, and so that plays a big role for me. I wanted to be a role model for my kids and I wanted this huge hairy goal that just scared the heck out of me. And also didn't just scare me to attempt it, but it scared me to sit on my couch. It scared me into action. I don't know if that makes sense.

Scot: It makes total sense. This whole time I'm thinking, "Fear is a huge motivator for Jody." You need to be scared. You need to have this thing that's so huge that you can't just half-ass your way through it. You have to be prepared.

Jody: Exactly.

Dr. Smith: And to me, you're talking about your personality of doing these big things and you've made these big swings back and forth. I think sometimes we get in those modes where that's kind of what we like to do. We like these big lofty goals because that's what motivates us to get off our butt and start moving.

I think I have some of that in me as well where I've had big weight swings being in residency and fellowship and then coming out and losing weight. So you're telling your story and I'm like, "I know how that feels. I know that." I don't have it at the extreme that you've had it, but I love that.

And so for me, my question for you is what do you plan to do differently this time as you go about it when you're done instead of having that kind of cliff you fall off of? Are you working with your therapist? What are you doing to put things into perspective that once you crush this goal, what are the next steps?

Jody: Part of this is unfinished business from 2011. I finished the Ironman Coeur d'Alene in 16 hours and 36 minutes. And I have the great photo of me crossing the finish line and a guy dressed up in a Batman costume was behind me. I accomplished that goal. But what I didn't accomplish is after the finish line. I didn't let it change me. I accomplished that goal, but I didn't change who I was.

And so Jim Rohn came on and he had a quote that really encapsulates my Ironman experience. He said, "Set the kind of goals that will make something of you to achieve them." And so what's important is the person you become. Not achieving the goal, but the person you become in pursuing that goal. And for me, that's the key.

Yeah, my goal is to cross that finish line in Sacramento, however long it takes, under 17 hours for that Ironman, but it's about doing it the right way this time. It's becoming the person that I want to be and challenging myself and breaking these habits of laziness, honestly, and establishing, "Hey, I'm not just an Ironman on this day, but I'm an Ironman every day and I can do these hard things."

It's not running a marathon every day, but it's getting out Monday night at 8:00 p.m. and going for a 2.5-hour walk, or doing a 2.5-hour bike ride, or swimming for 1,000 meters, or whatever. Just consistency, stacking those wins on top of each other.

And then after the race is done, whether I finish or I don't finish, then I continue, and then I have another goal after that. That's what I'm going to be doing differently this time compared to last time.

Dr. Smith: So what have you put in place right now? It sounds like you're talking to your therapist and doing those things. What kinds of things are you putting in now to help you and give you the confidence moving forward that that finish line wasn't the magic bullet or whatever that you thought it was going to be to propel you?

I'm just curious, because I'm thinking about times in my life where I struggle with that and I'm always looking for insight. So what things are you putting in place as your guardrails?

Jody: I think those are a couple of the guardrails. Some guys, I think, especially, shy away from seeking help from others. I really enjoy my therapist and she's awesome. The last thing she said to me today was, "I believe in you. I believe that you can do this." And so I think that having a support, somebody who can see the big picture and can guide you with your mental health as well, that's been really invaluable.

Before I even stepped onto the track or jumped in the swimming pool and hopped on my bike, the thing that I did is I wrote a list of whys. And I know whys are cliché a little bit, but you want to have your why.

I wrote down this big long list of reasons why I want to do an Ironman. And part of that was motivation to continue the journey that I started in 2011 and to become something better than I had allowed myself to become, to do this for my kids, and to inspire myself and hopefully inspire others.

And so I probably have . . . I don't know. I'm looking at it right now. There are probably 30, 40 different things that I wrote on here.

Mitch: That's awesome.

Jody: I love having structured workouts and training for something and not just, "Oh, I need to go jog for a mile today just to jog for a mile." But there's something motivating about, "Hey, I'm training for something instead of just exercising." So that's one of the things.

I also got my kids involved and they're excited about it. I let others know. I think that just soaking up the energy and the support of others is really helpful.

I've joined a triathlon club. They say you become like the five people you hang around the most, and so those are really fit, awesome, inspiring people that I want to be like.

I've changed some of the media that I intake. I watch a lot of inspiring either motivational speeches, speakers, or other triathletes or runners or cyclists or whatnot that are really motivating. That helps.

So there's no guarantee. It, ultimately, is just us every day choosing to do, to continue to be, and to keep seeking and fighting and scraping for forward momentum, or you start sliding backwards.

Mitch: Hey, Jody. I'm wondering do you think you would be listening to the things that you're listening to, or writing that list, or being hopeful for this next triathlon to be different if it wasn't for getting some mental health help? Because I know it was impossible for me to start, but I definitely think that, for me at least, that was really helpful.

Just listening last time, there was still some hesitancy, it sounded like, in the old interview about, "Eh, I guess I'll be doing some mental health stuff." But it sounds like it's a big part now.

Jody: It really is. I'm glad you brought that up because if you go back, you can see things being put into motion. The first thing I did, and kudos to me . . .

Scot: Yes, that's right. Kudos. We guys need to do more of that right there. I love it. Kudos to you. Keep going, Jody.

Jody: My therapist today told me to have compassion on myself and to be proud of things I accomplish.

So I sat down in her office, I think it was February or March of this year, and I was a mess. I was unhappy at work. I was unhappy with myself. I had lost 125 pounds or whatever and I was stuck on my weight loss journey. I was still frustrated about my whole ex situation and finances, everything. I was just a mess. And she started helping me sort me out.

If nothing else, it was just somebody who had an open ear and I could just sit down and whine and complain to somebody who was compassionate towards me and empathetic and offered some good advice. She was a great listener, and so I really appreciated that.

And here we are today. It's been about six months since I started my therapy sessions with her, and she said, "I've just witnessed this amazing mental health transformation that you've gone through. I'm just so proud." She teared up and I'm like, "Well, you're going to make me cry now." It was really cool. Man, I was a mess back then. I still am a mess, but . . .

Mitch: Oh, sure. I got to "graduate" from therapy with my therapist a couple years ago, and it was the same sort of thing where it's just like, "Hell yeah." I was maybe a mess. I'm still a mess, but I'm a participant. I'm an active part of it.

Scot: You're a mess in progress.

Mitch: Yes. And I have some of the tools to actually work through some of it. I'm so glad to hear that there are other guys out there that are having those same experiences.

Jody: Yeah. And I think it goes back to that stool, where you have the different . . . If you're trying to ride a stool like a unicycle, it's really hard to balance. You need all the legs touching the floor. And the more legs you have, the more stable you are.

So that mental health component is really . . . Honestly, it's the base. I was working on the physical but the physical was stuck, and so that's where we had to dig into the mental.

Dr. Smith: I'm just processing what I'm hearing, and it sounds like, to me, your journey last time, you did it without the mental health component and it maybe didn't give you the strength you needed to carry that through.

It sounds like this time you're in a better headspace to where, when you get done, you're going to be able to maintain some of that. I think it sounds like you've made this paradigm shift.

What was the final hurdle that it took for you to go, and was it that you just looked around your life and saw that it was a mess that you're like, "I'm going to go talk with someone"?

For those people who are in the situation where all guys, I think, are in where we're like, "I don't want to go get help," what was the thing that pushed you over the edge?

Jody: You start thinking, "What am I going to do? Who am I going to turn to? What's my next step?" And it seemed like I just kept running into brick walls.

I knew that I wasn't satisfied in my life. I wasn't wanting to end my life or anything like that, but I just wasn't happy. I'm like, "I am just not in a good place and there's got to be more to life than what I'm experiencing right now. I love my kids. I love being with my kids and doing that, but there's got to be more."

I think it was just that desire to see if somebody else had some different ways of helping me tap into that. I guess I just decided to give it another shot.

I've had therapy before, and I remember liking it here or there. I just never followed through on it. And so I don't know. I guess Scot had talked about this earlier on. I fail a lot and I fall a lot, but I get back up and just keep on going. I know that, eventually, people have had a lot of success through therapy, and so I'm like, "Well, I'm going to give this another shot." I'm really glad I did.

Scot: So I have a question. My observation . . . This was me getting inside of Jody's head. And it's not a bad place. It's a good place to be.

Jody: Wow. That's scary.

Scot: And I caught myself. I'm like, "But I don't know that that's the case."

So here was the exercise I did when I was thinking about this conversation. I was trying to break down last time when you did the Ironman, the things that you were hoping for out of it. I listened to the conversation and I came up with some themes. I think these themes can help all of us motivate ourselves, because we know from research that these are motivating things.

So having some sort of structure. The Ironman gives you that, right? Maybe not the healthiest way, terrifying you that if you don't have this structure, you're going to show up for this event and it's just not going to go well, but structure is important.

Purpose. The why. You said whys are cliché. I couldn't disagree more. I think whys are the most important part. Why do you want to do this? And for you, the Ironman, the why, you wanted to do the same things, kickstart, make sure that it gives you a reason to work out, a reason to exercise.

Another main thing I think for you that was huge was community support. And when you're doing a big thing like this, that community support really comes forward easily.

But when you're not doing big things like this, like when the race is done, nobody cheers you on for the maintenance. Nobody cheers you on for losing a pound a month. The cheers don't come for that. For a lot of people, and I feel as though this is the case for you, those things are super important.

So I just really want to revisit this question of after the vehicle for all of these things is done, the Ironman, do you have . . . And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe none of these things are motivating to you. But do you have an idea of what you're going to do that's going to provide some of these other things in absence of a big thing like that?

Jody: This is something that I really enjoy. And so this is my new hobby. This is my new pickleball.

Scot: Yeah. Does that mean you're going to be doing more Ironmen after this?

Jody: Yeah. I have a goal. I served an LDS mission in France, and there's an Ironman in southern France, in Nice. I want to do that.

There are different races. I would love to incorporate a long endurance event into my yearly life for as long as I can see doing that, 10, 15, 20 years. Who knows? So that's one thing. I want to continue doing triathlons, for sure.

So that's one of the things, is continuing to make this part of my life. It's about that becoming and continuing to become and evolve and to do, instead of just you accomplish that goal and you're done and go sit on the couch.

One of the big things is to inspire my kids and to be a good example for them. I have a 12-year-old son, and I'll tell people that I'm training for a triathlon, and he's like, "Dad . . ." He makes me say that I'm training for an Ironman.

Scot: Oh, that's so awesome. Because there's a difference, right? There is a difference.

Jody: They know how big of a struggle this is. And then them seeing that I actually go do it anyway, I think that speaks volumes to them. For a guy that they saw hit rock bottom, now they're seeing me pick myself up and make something more of myself. I think they say, "Hey, we can do hard things. Dad can do that, and we can do it too." At least that's what I hope they get out of it.

Scot: All right. Well, we've got to wrap this up. Jody, thank you so much for just putting it all out there. That's one of the things that I really admire about you, is the fact that you are willing to live your life, put your difficulties out there.

As you were talking about how your kids were supporting you, it can be really hard for us guys to let other people know when we have big struggles, because we're not supposed to have struggles. But if you don't let people know that you have struggles, then people can't support you in those struggles. And people want to support you, especially if they see that we're working towards overcoming those struggles.

So I think that's a big takeaway. I know it was towards the end, and that might be a little bit of a cop-out because you had so many great points all along, but that is what's resonating with me right now.

Let people know the struggles that you have in your life, that core group of people, so they can support you in those struggles. I think that's a big part of being successful.

John, what did you like? What's your takeaway here?

Dr. Smith: Man, I'm inspired. The perseverance. I think the thing that's sticking with me right now is, as you said, you failed a lot and you fell down, but you keep getting back up. And I think, to me, that's the thing that sometimes is the most difficult to do. You're showing that that is one of your greatest strengths, is that you're not a quitter and that you do get back up. I think that, to me, is the thing resonating in my head right now.

Scot: Mitch, what do you got for us?

Mitch: The idea of making a person's mess their message moves me so much. And just being one of those people that can reach out and interact with other people, whether it be on a platform, whether it be on a blog, whether it be just person to person, how important it is to have that social network, especially when you're trying for these big goals and doing these big things.

I'm going to recommit to doing some more of those. Even a couple weeks ago, my buddy, Rob, I work out with him every week, and he said, "You know what? Hey, have you been losing some weight?" And I'm like, "Yeah, two pounds." And he's like, "Well, yeah, that's something." I don't know. That is something to celebrate. And to have a community, to have people in your life, and to be that for other people, I think that's really amazing.

Jody: I appreciate it. Somebody reached out to me on Twitter and they said, "Hey, because of you, I went and signed up for a triathlon, and I did a triathlon." And it's stuff like that that's just really cool.

So it's fun to be part of your own journey, but it's also fun to realize that you're helping other people in their journeys. It doesn't have to be triathlons or whatever, but just to help them.

The Ironman motto is "Anything is possible." And I'm believing them. I'm taking it to heart and I'm making sure that I do everything that I need to do to live up to that motto, to make sure that I can be part of that "Anything is possible."

Scot: Jody, I absolutely love that we can learn from you that healthy is not a one-time decision, it's a series of recommitments, whether that's physical health, whether that's emotional health. You went to therapy for a while, it didn't work out, but you said, "I'm going to go recommit to this. I'm going to go again." And now it's starting to stick a little bit more.

We're certainly hoping and rooting for you in your Ironman and that these commitments stick the second time around. And I think being aware that they might not and having plans in place and having a list of whys, I think, are all steps that make it more likely that the second time it's going to happen.

When is your race again? Remind us.

Jody: It is on October 19th in Sacramento. Hey, there's still 7.5 weeks. You guys could join me.

Scot: Yeah. I was afraid that's where you were going with that.

Jody: Maybe the three of you could each take a leg. Oh, you have to work that day.

Scot: Yeah. Well, I can't wait. Everybody on this podcast will be rooting you on silently that day. Guys, I'll have a little moment of silence for Jody that day.

Jody: Eat pizza for me.

Scot: Right. Jody, thank you so much for being on. Certainly appreciate it.

If you have thoughts or comments on this episode, if you live your life messy and the mess is the message, if you've learned that it has to be a series of recommitments, it's not happily, healthily ever after, and you think that message would be something that would resonate, then we would love to hear from you. You can email us, hello@thescoperadio.com.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for caring about men's health. Go get them, Jody.

Jody: Thanks, Mitch, John, and Scot. Appreciate the conversation.